Criticisms of money

Proposals for a non market economic system called Energy Accounting which uses a post scarcity type of economy as its basis.[1] http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/The%20Energy%20Certificate-r.htm
The Energy Certificate. (reference)The Technate design as projected, would include such post scarcity aspects as free housing (urbanates), transportation, recreation, and education. In other words free everything, including all consumer products, as a right of citizenship. Energy is used as an accounting system in this proposal and not a reward or punishment societal mechanism. Because some view money as being an unreliable tool of measurement as regards social and ecological concerns, this alternative concept could be an alternative to money in the future.
-end section skip sievert (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
A little better, but still too large a fraction of non-market economics and/or Energy Accounting. It's also not really a criticism of money, or even of monetism. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes ?... but this is a criticism of money section and I am not sure how more critical than rejecting the idea altogether any thing can get. It is also explained why it is rejected http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/The%20Energy%20Certificate-r.htm The Energy Certificate in the foot note or reference that would go into this segment. Energy Accounting also is an articulate program... developed by some of the very top American scientists of the Twentieth century... Technical Alliance. The part about non market economics does not even have to be in there... but it is connected and relevant. This segment is designed to break the flow of the article in the sense that it is a contrary perspective and critical perspective... so it really can not be in accordance with the body of the article. It is a criticism aspect. This uniquely American criticism and suggestion for an alternative economic system would improve this article. I am not exactly sure how you can say It's also not really a criticism of money, or even of monetism..... Really if you care to follow some of the connected links... it is just about the most overt criticism of money I have ever come upon. Technocracy movement skip sievert (talk) 02:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
The concept may be a rejection of money, but what you've copied in any of the articles is only an alternative economic system, at best stating why it might be better. There's no real criticism of money or monetarism in any of the articles...yet. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Pardon but you do not seem to be reading the material presented. You do not seem to understand that this is not a monetary system. It is a different concept which is not only critical of money it rejects money as being not able to work in the future. No real criticism of money ? Huh? This is another reference link that may be good http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/I%20Am%20The%20Price%20System-r.HTM I Am The Price System R. B. Langan Great lakes Technocrat April 1944, # 66 I do not think you read the article on energy accounting http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/The%20Energy%20Certificate-r.htm The Energy Certificate... How any one can not read that and think it is not critical of money I am not sure. However this could be an issue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OWN Wikipedia:Ownership of articles... I hope not... but you have not cooperated to create or improve any alternative aspect to this article. Please look up this term ... Price System skip sievert (talk) 15:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Criticisms of money
The term price system is used to describe any economic system whatsoever that effects its distribution of goods and services by means of goods and services having prices and employing any form of debt tokens, or money. Alternative proposals for a non market economic system called Energy Accounting which uses a post scarcity type of economy as its basis have existed for some time.(reference link) http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/The%20Energy%20Certificate-r.htm Article on alternative system to money 'energy accounting'The Technate design as projected by Technocracy Incorporated, would include such post scarcity aspects as free housing (urbanates), transportation, recreation, and education. In other words free everything, including all consumer products, as a right of citizenship. Energy is used as an accounting system in this proposal and not a reward or punishment societal mechanism as money could be considered as being used currently. Because some view money as being an unreliable tool of measurement as regards social and ecological concerns, this alternative concept could be an alternative to money in the future. http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/I%20Am%20The%20Price%20System-r.HTM I Am The Price System R. B. Langan Great lakes Technocrat April 1944, # 66 (reference link). skip sievert (talk) 15:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Is that the best you can do for criticism: "Because some view money as being an unreliable tool of measurement as regards social and ecological concerns, this alternative concept could be an alternative to money in the future."? If so, then "Alternatives (to money)" or "non-monetary economics" would be a better section heading. (Non-monetary economics is probably a better article title than "non-market economics", though.) I also have a vague memory that some forms of communism propose the elimination of money, rather than merely the centralization of control of money, which they call "credit", but I can't find a reference here on Wikipedia. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
There is no connection to communism and the issues I have brought up. Communism is a Price System that used the Ruble. I wonder that you may not have read the material presented. This article is about money and it is normal to present a critical view of a subject. Not start a new topic or article within the article.... like your suggestion. Am I talking about an article title concerned with non monetary economics here? I do not think so. I did not start or originate any of these articles. I am not interested in renaming that article either. It is not the issue. I am going to add the section. It is not written in stone. I have asked you to help me write it. Please do... but please follow up on the subject of reading the basic information skip sievert (talk) 20:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
You (and most people) are confusing the Marx/Engles theory of communism with Lenin's "implementation" in Russia. I was referring to the former. No actual "implementation" has attempted to eliminate money.
I (carefully) didn't check to see who wrote the identical sections in non-market economics, Technocracy movement, Technocracy Incorporated, and others. Eventually, I may get around to it, and trimming all but one to refer to the section in the remaining aricle. On another note, James P. Hogan's novel Voyage from Yesteryear suggests that a non-monetary system could work in the absence of scarcity. (That also provides a social system which created appropriate personal incentives for people to actually do something.) But, still, all we have proposed for content here are alternatives to money, rather than criticism of money. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 23:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Well... thanks for leaving the section now. I think it is referenced well. It would seem to me that this essay article, published some time ago, could be considered a scathing negative review of money ... within the context of the addition (Criticism of money). http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/I%20Am%20The%20Price%20System-r.HTM I Am The Price System R. B. Langan Great lakes Technocrat April 1944, # 66.... and this reference point also points toward a critical assessment of money that is pretty stark... # ^ Stabile, Donald R. "Veblen and the Political Economy of the Engineer: the radical thinker and engineering leaders came to technocratic ideas at the same time," American Journal of Economics and Sociology (45:1) 1986, 43-44..... Any way... feel free to edit what I have done if interested... I am going to look at it some more and maybe I can think of a different perspective to come at it. I am not that familiar with Communism as you have written about it. I do know that it is a reactionary concept and a rejection of Capitalism... but since both are similar to each other (price systems) at least as practiced... I was not thinking of adding any communist aspect in the criticism of money section. I know the Communist ideas glorified human labor... and that in a way it is a spin off of Adam Smith in that way, at least as practiced. The main argument against 18th and 19th century economics as near as I can tell... is that purchasing power is destroyed by Technology and particularly energy conversion. Jobs are eliminated by mechanization. It is true that a human can put out about 1/20th of a horse power or about 33 watts... and a machine, even a simple machine like a refrigerator uses about a quarter horse power... and works 24 hours a day.. without complaint, hence productivity is measured in machine and not human power any more. - That article http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/The%20Energy%20Certificate-r.htm The Energy Certificateon Energy Accounting by Fezer also seems to take money to task in a very overt way.
Interesting aside as far as science fiction... the creator of Star Trek.. G.R. was in telephone contact with the head quarters of Technocracy Incorporated on a regular basis and was friends with one of the office managers there in the 60's. I think his name was Berge, now deceased. That is a story I heard by someone in that organization. skip sievert (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)